That being said, this past week I've gotten back into emailing and texting with others that wish I would go back to church. See part 1 to understand this post better. This has caused me to get back into history in order to explain my stance (again). I told both of these people that their hope for our return to church was in vain because I would have to teach my children that Joseph Smith was a liar and he lied to his wife, his children, his brethren, and indeed a whole church and he didn't lie once, he did it constantly and I'd have to teach them that all that was okay. Both their responses: "Abraham lied."
LOOOOOOORD! LORD!!!!! Lord help me.
But they sent me quotes and things to consider as to why the Church is true and will always be true and so I got back into history to dig and find out what was actually said and how they meant it. Thanks to other bloggers and as always, my husband's insights, I sent this letter below as one of the responses (with the other person we texted and called a truce. We've been this road countless times before but we are very passionate people so we always get swept back up into discussion, then truce. A discussion, then truce. It's comical.).
Hi (Edit),
When I read the scanned document you sent I couldn't find anywhere where Joseph said to refrain from accusing the brethren. Could you underline it for me? I read it about five times but couldn't see it.
I am still struggling to understand how, if Willard Richards wasn't in America, could he have recorded what Joseph said. But I'll come your way and consider that Joseph did say it. Then I ask myself - does this quote match God's eternal pattern? For example, scripture is filled with prophets, called by God, who did indeed "rise up to condemn others, finding fault with the church, saying they are out of the way." Some examples are:
Noah
Abraham
Moses
Amos
Hosea
Isaiah
Ezekiel
Micah
Jeremiah
Lehi
Jacob
Benjamin
Abinadi
Alma the Younger
Samuel the Lamanite
John the Baptist
Jesus Christ
Joseph Smith
Why would Joseph say that, "It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity" and then have the scriptures replete with examples which contradict that exact statement? In my understanding - the mission of any true prophet is telling people who have gone astray that they are out of the way and calling them to repentance (D&C 11:9). President Benson did that in his April 1986 General Conference Talk (link).
I have observed that in our day and age "the Church" has come to mean the organizational structure at Church headquarters in Salt Lake City, the institutional, corporate Church, and primarily its leaders. But when Joseph referenced "the church" he meant just the opposite. He was talking about the rank and file members. Joseph's definition of the church was the same as the definition given by the Lord in D&C 10:67: all who repent and come unto Christ, "the same is my church."
“I will give you one of the Keys of the mysteries of the Kingdom. It is an eternal principle, that has existed with God from all eternity: That man who rises up to condemn others, finding fault with the Church, saying that they are out of the way, while he himself is righteous, then know assuredly, that that man is in the high road to apostasy; and if he does not repent, will apostatize, as God lives.”
Whatever it was that caused Willard Richards to record that quote when he wasn't present for that meeting - I do not know. I have always thought apostasy was turning your back on Christ, abandoning religious faith, denouncing the gospel. "Losing confidence in the leaders" seems to be the polar opposite of what Nephi warned us about 34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm. (2 Nephi 4)
As I see it - members in the church today are instructed to center their focus on the leaders. "You keep your eyes riveted on the prophet and the Twelve apostles. We will not lead you astray. We cannot. So keep your eyes riveted on the leadership of the Church." (Elder Ballard speaking at BYU, 1996) If I am critical and on the high road to apostasy for saying I believe Elder Ballard was incorrect in that statement and it doesn't match scripture - I will accept that accusation of me. I believe they are men who can and do make mistakes, and that's okay! I can and do make mistakes daily. I tell my children to let me know where I'm wrong and if I've said something hypocritical or inconsistent - and boy they do let me know. And I always thank them and tell them to keep it coming because I'm trying to be the best parent I can be. I believe the leaders tell us they are fallible and so I choose to keep my eye on He who is infallible and I hope that's enough for Him.
I know you feel I am being critical when I make observations and say that doesn't match scripture (as I understand scripture). But to me...that isn't being critical - it is thinking critically (which can feel threatening I think). I don't mind when you tell me you don't agree with Trump. It's when you attack him personally (and I would feel that way if you did that for anyone) that I get uncomfortable. I say - think critically about what Trump is doing! And let me know the red flags you see. That is good conversation and helps me learn about policies and the constitution and look out for Gadianton robbers. But saying he's evil (not that you said that but just an example) does nothing to further my learning. I feel it is a good thing to look at the church and ask questions and see if the church today aligns with the scriptures. I believe the Book of Mormon encourages us to do this. 2 Nephi 28 warns of us following flesh:
9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.
10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the way; they have become corrupted.
12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.
13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.
Matt.15: 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
D&C 93: 39 And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers.
As I see it - members in the church today are instructed to center their focus on the leaders. "You keep your eyes riveted on the prophet and the Twelve apostles. We will not lead you astray. We cannot. So keep your eyes riveted on the leadership of the Church." (Elder Ballard speaking at BYU, 1996) If I am critical and on the high road to apostasy for saying I believe Elder Ballard was incorrect in that statement and it doesn't match scripture - I will accept that accusation of me. I believe they are men who can and do make mistakes, and that's okay! I can and do make mistakes daily. I tell my children to let me know where I'm wrong and if I've said something hypocritical or inconsistent - and boy they do let me know. And I always thank them and tell them to keep it coming because I'm trying to be the best parent I can be. I believe the leaders tell us they are fallible and so I choose to keep my eye on He who is infallible and I hope that's enough for Him.
I know you feel I am being critical when I make observations and say that doesn't match scripture (as I understand scripture). But to me...that isn't being critical - it is thinking critically (which can feel threatening I think). I don't mind when you tell me you don't agree with Trump. It's when you attack him personally (and I would feel that way if you did that for anyone) that I get uncomfortable. I say - think critically about what Trump is doing! And let me know the red flags you see. That is good conversation and helps me learn about policies and the constitution and look out for Gadianton robbers. But saying he's evil (not that you said that but just an example) does nothing to further my learning. I feel it is a good thing to look at the church and ask questions and see if the church today aligns with the scriptures. I believe the Book of Mormon encourages us to do this. 2 Nephi 28 warns of us following flesh:
9 Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines, and shall be puffed up in their hearts, and shall seek deep to hide their counsels from the Lord; and their works shall be in the dark.
10 And the blood of the saints shall cry from the ground against them.
11 Yea, they have all gone out of the way; they have become corrupted.
12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.
13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up.
14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men.
Matt.15: 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
D&C 93: 39 And that wicked one cometh and taketh away light and truth, through disobedience, from the children of men, and because of the tradition of their fathers.
I am not saying I am in the right way. I am saying that one person is lying (either Joseph or Brigham) and I say it was Brigham that lied and you say that it was Joseph. So we have to set that aside and see what we can prove to be true.
What is true? We both believe the Book of Mormon and Joseph said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” So as long as I do just what the Book of Mormon says, I hope to be in the right way.
I wanted to ask you: Could you define what the Standard of Truth that has been erected is?
From the quote you scanned:
Matthew 13: 31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
"Now we can discover plainly that this figure is given to represent the Church as it shall come forth in the last days. … Let us take the Book of Mormon, which a man took and hid in his field, securing it by his faith, to spring up in the last days, or in due time; let us behold it coming forth out of the ground, which is indeed accounted the least of all seeds, but behold it branching forth, yea, even towering, with lofty branches, and God-like majesty, until it, like the mustard seed, becomes the greatest of all herbs. And it is truth, and it has sprouted and come forth out of the earth, and righteousness begins to look down from heaven, and God is sending down His powers, gifts and angels, to lodge in the branches thereof."
Joseph says the parable plainly represents the church and then says what he means by that: He says the Kingdom of Heaven is the same as: The Book of Mormon. This Book of Mormon will spring up in the last days until it is the greatest of all herbs.
Love,
Ruth
What is true? We both believe the Book of Mormon and Joseph said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” So as long as I do just what the Book of Mormon says, I hope to be in the right way.
I wanted to ask you: Could you define what the Standard of Truth that has been erected is?
From the quote you scanned:
Matthew 13: 31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.
"Now we can discover plainly that this figure is given to represent the Church as it shall come forth in the last days. … Let us take the Book of Mormon, which a man took and hid in his field, securing it by his faith, to spring up in the last days, or in due time; let us behold it coming forth out of the ground, which is indeed accounted the least of all seeds, but behold it branching forth, yea, even towering, with lofty branches, and God-like majesty, until it, like the mustard seed, becomes the greatest of all herbs. And it is truth, and it has sprouted and come forth out of the earth, and righteousness begins to look down from heaven, and God is sending down His powers, gifts and angels, to lodge in the branches thereof."
Joseph says the parable plainly represents the church and then says what he means by that: He says the Kingdom of Heaven is the same as: The Book of Mormon. This Book of Mormon will spring up in the last days until it is the greatest of all herbs.
Love,
Ruth
To conclude I will say that if you don't know me by now - I am prone to burst of fire. I detest this about myself when it flares up. Often I take this fire to the Lord and have found He is big enough to handle it. But my prayer the last 10 or so years has been, and please forgive me if this offends you but I try to be transparent here, my prayer concerning the church has gone like this:
LORD! The Church is filled with lies! Awaken Your people! EXPOSE this corruption! Shine a light on all this darkness and bring these hidden things forth!!!
This week after digging into history and remembering all the evils that have been done...my prayer lead to this:
LORD!! Burn it all DOWN. It is ALL corrupt! It is ALL out of the way. Burn it, expose it - let it be consumed!
When I prayed this I could feel the Lord wasn't aligning with me on this request. I waited...still no feeling of alignment. So I repeated again (I thought maybe He wasn't seeing the logic) and added, "You'll find a way to help your children that will be left reeling by this. You can do it. Burn it down and Your children will be okay. They will find You. Right?"
Heavenly displeasure settled upon me. I sat there for some time wondering what I had said wrong. I had the thought to read my scriptures so I grabbed them and opened up Luke 9, and it was as though the Lord put a heavenly magnifying glass and hovered it over these words:
"And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?.....but He turned and rebuked them, and said, Ruth - you know not what manner of Spirit you are of....For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."
A heavenly earthquake shook my soul. Forgive me Lord. Cast this spirit far from me. How can I help Your people to find You? Teach me what to pray for, Lord.
"Pray for the Lord of the Harvest to send forth laborers into the harvest."
"Yes Lord!" And then I pray. And then I pick my scriptures back up and read Luke chapter 10 and it says that exact scripture.
2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
Thanks to Tim who pointed that prayer out some time ago (if you can link that post below when you read this post). The Lord knows I learn through repetition.
Prayer:
Lord, please send more laborers into Your Harvest. Touch those who have Awoken...to Arise. Breathe on us Your Breath of Life, Lord. Cause a famine to arise in the land, Lord. A famine for Your Word and Your Truth. Cause a hunger to pain these, Your people. A Hunger for Your Bread which is meat indeed and Your Blood which is drink indeed. Fill us with Your Spirit Lord, and cause us to reject all other spirits that would fill us and distract us from Laboring to bring in the Harvest. Fill us with You with Your good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over. You said that if a child asks their father for bread they will not be given a stone. And we, being evil, come and ask You for Your Bread and You for Your drink. Lord please - FILL US and KEEP US and send more of us that we may be able to stand at the crossroads for those coming up behind that we may illuminate the path and point the way back to You. Let us always speak of You and let no other name or idol fill our hearts. All that is not of You is dross and good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled. We need more of You Lord. Give us this day our daily Bread. Forgive us. We forgive our debtors, all of them. ALL! Thank You for forgiving our debts. Now let your Servants come along side You, shod with the gospel of Peace - let us work while it is day before it is night when no man can work. We offer ourselves to You.
In Your name Jesus. Amen.
This song below is SO BEAUTIFUL. Thank you to UB who sent it to me. Don't let the harp and homely background fool you. This song is WONDERFUL.
All I Want Is Jesus
by
Megan Tibbits
